[Webinar] – Helping landlords with compliance

TRANSCRIPT:

0:01
LL: Welcome, everyone. Thank you for joining our first webinar in a series on green homes. I’m Luke Loveridge, I was one of the founders of several tech businesses that have been involved in helping retrofit homes and keep them healthy. One of those was recently acquired by Eco Approach.

0:20
I’m joined by a stellar panel of experts today, Lee Rix, Eco Approach Managing Director, Clint Walker, Head of Partnerships at Eco Approach and Jason Hewins from Elmhurst Energy.

0:38
In this webinar, we’re going to be taking a step back and put many of the changes helping homes become more healthier and energy efficient, into a wider context and look at the implications for you and your clients.

1:31
I’m going to start with an introduction around the scale of changes happening in 2026 and looking at the drivers first of why these regulations are coming out.

1:45
The country is facing a number of challenges, particularly where real estate can play a really important role. Energy and climate security is a big one. We imported over £117 billion worth of energy in 2022 and even in terms of climate related damage, we’re already paying £35 billion per year and that’s expected to rise to £250 billion per year by 2050.

2:09
The cost of living is technically over, according to economists, but there are still inflationary pressures within the country working its way through the economy and there’s still 6 million people in fuel poverty they can’t afford to pay, there are still those who have to choose between eating and putting on the heating during the winter. And linked to that there’s also looming healthcare costs as well. Costs related to housing, poor housing conditions costs the NHS around £1.4 billion annually and of that around 850,000,000 is due to excess cold, so energy efficiency.

So the government has to take action, it has taken action and it still needs to do more. But I think the point here is these things aren’t going away. Whatever government is in place, we’ll have to tackle these challenges. But unlike single previous single policy updates, 2026 brings multiple major changes at once.

3:06
Awaab’s law is currently being phased in in social housing with more strict legal time frames for dealing with damp and mould. As part of the Renters Rights Bill that is now being extended into the private rented sector. The decent home standard is also being extended in the private rented sector. Both of those are obviously proposed and under consultation.

3:26
And there’s also a load of changes going on around EPCs, energy performance certificates and minimum energy efficiency standards. New metrics will be being proposed for 2026 around the EPC. The standard will be EPC C for new, new tenancies by 2028 and for all tenancies by 2030. These are currently not legal requirements, but under consultation.

3:54
And then when you throw into the mix EICR, many of those will be starting to be renewed in 2026, you start to get quite a strain on the supply chain having to service, potentially remedials around damp and mould and retrofit and electrical installation surveys as well.

4:16
So it’s a risk. In terms of compliance failure, loss of rental income, devalued assets, but I also want to stress there is potentially an opportunity here as well to improve the quality and the health of those homes, have better relationship with tenants and your clients and also have stronger more resilient portfolios as well. And I also want to stress how they’re all interrelated and it’s quite a complex web.

4:44
So with MEES pushing for upgrades some of those could potentially be done badly or poorly which could then risk damp and mould ingress. Any upgrade work might require electrical systems which highlights the EICR compliance aspects and actually electrical systems are related to damp and mould.

5:06
Ventilation system damp could potentially affect the electrical systems for example. So again, one area potentially affects the other. Applying it in silos might not necessarily be the best approach.

5:22
To summarise, it is a huge challenge. The scale of confirmed and proposed challenges is significant in 2026, just in terms of minimum energy efficiency standards. For example, nearly 3,000,000 homes need upgrading within four years potentially.

5:39
I do want to highlight that technology has actually come a long way and actually has been rolled out quite significantly in social housing to help landlords manage these risks. From analysis, optimization, detection, monitoring, reporting, even automation, there are a lot of solutions out there available.

6:00
But I think the critical part here is given all these demands on contractors, trusted partners will be critical to delivery of these of these regulations. I’m now going to hand over to Jason so to update on EPC’s and MEES.

6:36
JHI’m Jason Hewins, I work for Elmhurst Energy on the new build dwellings side. I’m just going to take a few minutes of your time to talk to the latest in terms of energy efficiency, EPC’s and MEES as well.

6:54
What’s going on with EPC reform? You may be aware or heard the term EPC reform. Just to go into what the government were proposing particularly around the recent consultation on PRS, the home energy model, again you might have heard the term HEM or home energy model and wonder what that is.

7:22
Earlier this year the government issued the consultation on reforming EPCS. This is a consultation that had been expected for a long time and there was lots of really complex proposals around how EPCS can be improved for the future. And obviously, as we talk about other policies reliant on EPCS, this is absolutely fundamental to those.

7:42
Some of the changes that were proposed were looking at the format of the EPC and that was a big section of the consultation. The current EPC is solely based on the cost based metric. There’s been some criticism over the years that we should look at different types of metrics as well to support that, especially if we want to look at using low carbon heating systems, which don’t always tally up with using a cost based metric.

8:18
So there’s proposal to use an energy use metric, a smart readiness metric and the fabric energy metric reflecting the fabric of the building as well as well as the current cost based metric. Quite a significant proposal to reduce the validity period of EPCS. So currently EPCS are valid for 10 years once issued.

8:38
They’re proposing to reduce that down to five years to ensure that EPC’s are more up to date and capture the fuel prices more accurately at the time of production and revised trigger points for EPC’s around tenancies and other aspects as well.

8:59
We are still awaiting the responses from this consultation. Obviously there’s a lot in there and I know they got a lot of responses. So they’re working through those at the moment. We expect those to be issued in the first half of next year.

9:16
Alongside that, another consultation that came out this year was around MEES in the private rented sector. And again there’s some very important proposals in that consultation which do link heavily to the EPC reform consultation as well.

9:29
So the key headlines are we are proposing that by 2028 all new tenancies would need to be EPC Band C and by 2030 all tenancies would need to be EPC Band C as well. There’s a proposal because of the cost of retrofit to raise the sort of maximum investment or cost cap as it’s known from 10,000 to 15,000 pounds.

9:54
And if you do need to get an exemption because you’ve spent up to the cost cap and you still can’t achieve that band, see there was a proposal to extend that exemption from 5 to 10 years.

10:06
There was also mention of potential affordability exemptions, not too many details on what that might be based on the suggestion, suggestions around low rent rate exemptions or different areas of the countries having different exemptions as well.

10:22
But they were asking for people’s opinions on a few different factors there. And of course, we’ve just mentioned the EPC reform. The EPC is going to look different and use different metrics and there’s some suggestions that MEES will use other metrics other than the cost based metric or alongside the cost based metric.

10:42
And that’s closed relatively recently and we are expecting responses again next year for that one.

And finally, the home energy model. HEM or home energy model, you may have heard this term, it’s been discussed a lot recently.

10:56
This is going to be the replacement of the energy rating methodology we currently know as SAP or RdSAP for existing homes. It’s going to be replaced with the home energy model. And this is a brand new methodology. So it’s not a revision to SAP. It’s a fundamentally different brand new set of physics and maths going on to create these EPC ratings. It’s not being used yet for any official purpose.

11:20
The first version or the first official use will be expected to come later this year or next year, which is to use it for calculation of compliance for building regulations on new homes. And then quickly following on from that, it will be used to calculate EPC ratings both on new and existing homes of which the government are expecting to release a consultation on later this year.

11:47
The three parts I’ve presented today are all into interrelated and it’s a complex set of relationships between the two. We can’t really have EPC reform without the home energy model being ready because it’s likely that that will need to be used to produce the new metrics.

12:03
But MEESs and the changes for PRS are also relying on EPC reform being finalized. So they all need to sort of come along at the same time really. We’re expecting a big year next year where the outcomes of these consultations and the next steps are published by government.

12:20
It is going to be pretty significant. It’s going to be the biggest change to EPC’s pretty much since their introduction. They will look very different and that will mean lots of different things to different stakeholders. MEES changes are always difficult and complicated and the government are going to take a lot of time to consider the way forward for that. Home energy model is complicated as well.
It’s a much more complex model, than SAP and in terms of what needs to be collected from properties, that will change quite significantly as well. And we’re expecting more detail on that later this year.

13:32
CW My name is Clint. I’m head of partnerships at Eco Approach and I want to share a little bit of information and some of my thoughts on a AWAABS law.

13:50
It’s heartbreaking to know that Awaab was 2 when he sadly passed away in December 2020. His cause of death was acute oedema with severe granulomatous tracheobronchitis and that was due to environmental mould exposure. And if we just sit with that for a moment away from any business desires, any commercial decisions or any reasons you’re on here today to focus on this for your business.

14:19
Awaab passed away at 2, no future life, parents devastated because of damp and mould or exasperated because of damp and mould. So this is not just a social housing issue. We must work together.

14:36
Landlords are going to be required to investigate and resolve damp and mould hazards within strict guidelines and it’s now the landlord’s responsibility to take control of the issue and not set the blame squarely on the shoulders of the resident in some cases while blaming how they interact with their homes and what their lifestyle looks like.

14:55
But to make a more balanced decision, taking all environmental conditions into account. And we know that quite rightly, with increased accountability comes enforcement actions, fines and significant reputational damage for landlords if they fail to comply.

15:14
But I personally think that’s warranted considering the overall aim is to prevent future deaths. And there are many reasons why this matters. First and foremost, damp and mould has a direct effect on tenants health and it risks respiratory issues if it’s left. I believe Awaabs case in around July 2020 the home technically was unfit for human to be in there.

15:47
Now normally adults with an average health, an average immune system can fight off mould spores as part of the normal immune system response. But the elderly and perhaps children aren’t able to respond in the same way. So this is important. There’s also a big reputational risk of homes that have mould. It could lead to voids. It could lead to devaluation of your dwellings. And there could be enforcement costs.

16:23
Now I wonder what kind of life Awaab might have gone on to have, if he’d been given a better chance. So whether your homes are cold, poorly ventilated or freshly retrofitted to a good EPC racing, there’s always a risk of damp and mould.

16:41
And if not done correctly, retrofit works can worsen or cause condensation and damp in residence homes, as well as if they haven’t been retrofitted.

16:52
So there’s a risk to both and we should shift the thinking to being together on this towards considering compliance not as separate silent silos, but all linked together, ensuring everyone’s has the opportunity to live in a healthy and safe, efficient home.

17:17
I, throughout the week, travel the length and breadth of the country and I can’t help but look at properties as I’m passing through cities and towns, whether that’s driving or on the train.

17:26
And sometimes I’ll look at properties and think, oh, a good solar array would go on top of that roof or a heat pump would sit nicely alongside that property.

17:36
But sometimes one of the things you can’t escape is how poorly retrofitted some homes are and how that would impact residents.

17:44
And you can see there along the left hand side, I would hope that’s not done under a funded scheme, but it’s pretty sad to see things like that because this install is clearly thought they need to cut that guttering and waste pipe into the insulation.

17:59
And I wonder on the right hand side with no verge trims on that roof line, how water is going to ingress into that property.

18:13
I don’t think it takes a brain surgeon to spot the obvious mistakes and it certainly gives rise to a non-technical person asking some key questions about residents properties. And we should all keep each other to account.

18:25
We should have and we must have compliant, competent contractors like Eco Approach and many others no doubt if we’re going to give landlords and residents a fighting chance to get it right.

18:46
Awaab’s Law together with a strong collaborative industry is going to fuel a cultural shift moving away from tick box compliance, in some cases, to ensuring there are safe, habitable and healthy homes.

19:00
Now with the advancement of technology, there are a number of options available to landlords and installers to understand what the customers and behaviours and what the environmental behaviours are contributing to damp and mould in their homes.

19:14
And this is not understanding how to avoid penalties, it’s about protecting tenants, landlords and your asset value. Now I know Eco Approach, we value productivity. We focus on working with landlords to improve the performance of the housing stock, but more than anything, we want to improve tenants lives, giving good quality retrofits, more efficient homes and better lives as a result.

20:05
LR :I‘m Lee Rix, Managing Director of Eco Approach. Although we’re discussing how to help your landlords navigate major compliance changes, I think we need to address a major compliance change from five years ago that will absolutely be pushing its way onto centre stage again very, very soon.

20:21
And by that, I’m referring to the electrical safety standards in the private rental sector. So for what feels like an absolute eternity, it’s been the responsibility of a landlord to ensure that the property they let is safe for the occupants and that’s typified by gas safety certificates.

20:41
Gas appliances were considered an item of risk, liable to defect, and therefore must be checked every 12 months. A reasonable suggestion and something that was ratified by law back in 1998. Not quite sure how, but it took us 22 years to come to the same conclusion around electrical safety.

20:58
By introducing a legal requirement back in 2020, we took a massive step in the right direction. And just as a quick recap of what those regulations actually state, a landlord must have a valid EICR for a property, the report must be made available to the tenant, and the report must be renewed as per the renewal date on that certificate.

21:17
There’s a maximum validity period of five years and that’s down to the discretion of the electrician conducting that testing. If the EICR returns an unsatisfactory result, the remedial work that’s been identified must be resolved within 28 days of the inspection and non-compliance can result in some pretty hefty fines of up to £30,000.

21:42

So what did we learn five years ago? Some simple answers. One, there’s quite a few rental properties in the UK. Two, landlords, as a collective, like to leave things to the last minute, and three, you need a hell of a lot of coffee to stay up all night processing certificates.

21:58
So back in 2020 there was this phased introduction to the regulations. The new regs applied to new tenancies from July 2020 and all existing tenancies had to have the certain place by the 1st of April 2021. So if you do the math, it sounds like there was a 10 month window in which landlords could get their certificates in order and that’s for all 5.5 million rental properties in the UK at the time.

22:24
But the reality was that an overwhelming majority did not act until about January 2021, which we created this just unsustainable demand in that first quarter. And as I mentioned, the certificates have a maximum validity period of five years. So I think we’re just about to experience that exact same Q1 demand, but five years later.

22:45
And to say that electricians did well in that. Would be an understatement. We witnessed surge pricing across the supply chain because landlords just had no choice. And remember that the burden isn’t just to get the assessment done. This was the first introduction of mandatory electrical inspections.

23:02
The rate of failure was high. It was as high as 30% due to ageing electrical installations and probably just the fact that landlords didn’t have to spend the money on it until that point. So these remedial works had to also be complete within 28 days as per the regs.

23:16
So you can just imagine it just became unsustainable. And despite an enormous volume of landlords falling outside of compliance due to that demand, we didn’t actually see that many reports of these significant fines that are associated with the regs.

23:31
It seems like there was a bit of a pragmatic approach taken, so knowing that landlords were trying to get compliant but the industry just couldn’t support them. But if you fast forward five years, it really does feel like that sentiment has well and truly worn off and we can now expect to see the fines being issued in cases of non-compliance.

23:48
It’s not a secret that the Chancellor needs a few quid, right? Another point to consider is the expected volume of EICRS that will be unsatisfactory five years on from that last inspection any C3 items which were noted as advisories at the time could absolutely have deteriorated to become C2s which require action this time around.

24:09
We’ve also seen amendments to electrical standards in the last five years. There was a big change back in 2022 that could also put landlords at risk of further remedial works being required within a short time frame.

24:24
And whilst we hope the volume of unsatisfactory EICRS will be lower than five years ago due to a greater awareness of electrical safety throughout the private rental sector, we’ve got to consider the additional burden that’s grown and been placed on the electrical industry over the last five years.

24:40
We spoke earlier that the UK is on a mission to decarbonize its housing stock in which electrification of heat is playing an enormous role. Many of the measures require an electrician, solar panels and battery installations, wiring up air source heat pumps or as mentioned, the electrician required to do the ventilation measures that go in with the insulation.

25:00
Yet according to a recent JTL report, there’s actually been a 26% reduction in qualified electricians in the UK in that in that last five year. So net zero targets and MEES legislation are providing even greater demand for electrician, which coupled with this significant spike that’s come in for EICRs, we’re, just going to create that same environment as five years ago, but arguably with fewer electricians.

25:24
It’s going to be chaotic. So what can, what can agents and lenders do? And I think at this point it’s  take the horse to the water. At this stage, it’s critical for agents, lenders, property managers to be communicating with their landlords to ensure that action is taken promptly.

25:44
Review your property management and data tools, understand which landlords have renewals coming up with the next six months and encourage them to take early action. Remember, these aren’t like annual gas safety certificates and EICR can last for up to five years. So bringing that renewal. Forward slightly, it’s hardly bad financial planning. Another key point is that you can lower the barriers to action. Provide your landlords with a network of trusted and vetted partners like Eco Approach who can deliver high quality reports and a reasonable price and use your economies of scale to lean on your partners, secure great pricing and lock it in.

26:20
So when that inevitable jump in demand and that that surge pricing kicks in, your landlords won’t be a victim of that. And then just a final point to round off is, yes, the legal responsibility of this is on the landlord, but the relationship that you have with your landlords is your responsibility. Communicate early, guide them well and avoid this potential headache.

26:53
We’re now going to s Q&A First one I’m going to put to you Jason, so Jason

What impact will the EPC methodology changes have on landlords who have already invested in upgrades based on the old system?

27:20
JH There’s, a bit of discussion around this in the MEES consultation. They’re proposing if you have an existing EPC which is E or above, you’ll still be able to claim you are compliant to the MEES changes that they’re proposing for 2028 and 2030 as long as your EPC is still valid at that point.

27:45
So there’s some positives and negatives to that as well. Obviously, the drawback is that you might have an EPC that’s very old albeit it’s still valid. So it wouldn’t actually reflect the energy performance of the property at that point in time.

27:58
But the good news is it would be a smoother transition for landlords into these new standards. In terms of the EPC reformat itself, as we’ve said, there’s going to be new metrics and the new energy rating methodology behind it does remain to be seen how that will pan out and what metrics that the MEEs proposals actually will take from the new EPC.

28:22
So we need to wait till the consultation responses are issued for that. But there is an intent from government to say if you’ve already invested in upgrades and you’ve got an EPC which is MEES compliant, then that will be MEES compliant still for the length of our EPC’s life.

28:38

Do you think people will get EPC’s prior to the changes because they think it’s less accurate, so it’d be more in their favour potentially?

28:52
JHI’m not sure if less accurate is necessary the way about it, but obviously there’ll be some properties which are rewarded under the new methodology and some that might not be. Generally when there’s a change around EPC MEES or laws, there is generally a spike we’re having with RdSAP10.

29:09
Earlier this year there was a big spike of EPC’s being lodged prior, just prior to RdSAP10 coming in because people understood the impact that may have on their ratings. We would expect to see a increase in activity prior to any change.

29:28
With the new renewal coming now, how can, agents and lenders and advisors help their landlords prepare for this without overwhelming electricians and contract contractors?

29:51
LR:I think that was the crux of the point I was trying to get across in my presentation is that most the agent, lenders or property manager can do is communicate as early as possible because I think that when you talk about stressing the electrical industry, it’s already stressed.

30:06
It’s 25% down on labour and there’s only ever been bolt-ons to electrical requirements over the last five years, it’s going to be stressed anyway. I think it’s try and encourage landlords to take action, bring those renewals forward. And in particular, if you’ve got a management agreement in place it allows you to take the bull by the horns and do that for the landlord.

30:31
I think that the main retort that you might find is why are you bringing that forward? Am I not losing value in the EICR I had because it should have lasted for five years? By countering that argument with it’s only a couple of months and we’ve probably saved you from surge pricing” I think there’s a good balance to be had.

30:47
If you communicate that early enough, there there’s less friction in that relationship between the letting agent and the landlord. It’s all about communication.

31:15

What sort of practical steps or examples would you recommend to ensure that retrofits improve homes without creating those additional risks?

31:21
CW it’s a valid question. We were talking about some of the pictures, there are some of the bad examples you see up and down the country. The key is to do work with competent contractors. It’s important to do the right work, in the right order, with the right follow up checks -done by the contractor and also the relevant stakeholders in the industry.

31:47
It’s a whole house thinking approach and you shouldn’t just be throwing one measure such as insulation in without considering the associated effects of that such as ventilation. A very strong ventilation strategy with tracking moisture movement, heating systems, you wouldn’t and shouldn’t install insulation without considering the proper ventilation because that could and will make a condensation and damp worse.

32:14
And we always pair it with ventilation strategy, with air tightness testing, making sure there’s adequate ventilation such as trickle vents, extractor fans in bathrooms and kitchens and undercuts and doors. Installations should also be paired with pre and post work surveys as well as during the works using RdSAP, retrofit assessments and checking the baseline of the property, documenting the damp, mould or any structural issues before the works can start and then rechecking afterwards to confirm the risk of being reduced so you know you’re making an actual difference in that home. Along with making sure you’re installing and sticking to PAS 2035 and 2030 standards, making sure the installers are also trained and supervised.

33:08
A poor install or even a good install can and is what cause most risks. If you insulate a solid wall property in Rochdale, for example, you should always be checking the kitchen and bathrooms have working extractors, trickle vents on all windows.

33:27
And we’d follow up with post install surveys to make sure the humidity levels have dropped, not increased. It’s a bit of a round robin of a number of different factors there. Doing the right work in the right order and most importantly following that up with the right checks.

How realistic is it that landlords will actually meet these tighter MEES requirements?

33:54
LL: That’s it’s going to be tight. Obviously we’ve got the EPC reform next year. Let’s say MEES gets confirmed next year. That still just leaves less than four years for nearly 3,000,000 homes to be upgraded. And some of those upgrades could be quite extensive, although some of them might not be.

34:12
Do I think it’s doable?, landlords will need to act fast, not just wait until the last minute, particularly if they need solar panels installing- installation works. That could actually have quite a long lead in time. My feeling is the government might stick to the deadlines, but then see how much progress has made. And if there’s still a number of landlords not complying because of the demand on the supply chain, then they might maybe give some grace, for example, a year or so. But it’s going to be tight.

34:53
Speaking to a number of lenders all feel like it is quite a tall ask. And the government’s not really sort of framing any support for landlords at the moment. There’s grant funding available depending on your tenant circumstances. I think it’s still doable, but it’s definitely a tall order for sure.

35:26
Will gas heating have a negative impact on the EPC going forwards?

35:32
JH Good question. It’s probably worth reflecting on where we are currently with the EPC. The EPC is currently as we know a cost based rating. Gas performs very well in EPC currently if we compare to electric that’s I’m guessing that’s where the questions probably aimed at.

35:50
At the moment a common thing that we get asked at Elmhurst is, “I’ve switched to a heat pump, why is my rating no better than gas or even worse?”, and that’s all to do with the cost of electricity in this country, it’s around 4 times more expensive per unit than gas.

36:05
As the EPC is a cost based rating, if your heat pumps not at least four times as efficient as the gas boiler, you’ll get around about the same EPC rating. Now obviously that doesn’t really tally with where the government are trying to go to using low carbon heating.

36:20
Hence EPC reform proposed using additional metrics. In terms of will it make will gas perform worse? It depends which metric you are looking at on the new EPC. If we stay on the cost based metric, I don’t think gas will perform worse because I don’t see any major shifts in the way gas is going to be priced in the future.

36:44
Electricity may perform better if the government choose to do something with the unit cost of electricity, to encourage heat pumps. If we look at a carbon based metric, however, then it would be completely the other way around. Electricity will perform very well on a carbon based metric because we know the grid is decarbonizing and will continue to do so.

37:05
Whereas gas at the moment is about 60% higher per unit of fuel in terms of carbon emissions. So it really depends on what metrics the government choose to place on the new EPC.

37:17
If it’s price related, gas probably won’t perform any worse than it currently does. If it’s carbon related, then gas will perform worse than it would probably do compared to cost, because electricity is the way the government are heading from a net zero perspective.

37:34
LL : And I think we can’t not take into account that direction of travel, of electrification, of heat. I think,  getting heat pumps in every home / private rental property by 2030 is quite a very tall ask, isn’t it?
I’ve fed back on the consultation that they should include a heating transition plan in the cost cap.
So even if you can it doesn’t make sense to do an upgrade to electrify your heating at this point.

38:06
At least you’ve got a plan in the next 10-15 years so that when that boiler needs replacing, you’ve got a plan for that. It feels like a next phase. This phase is like; right, let’s just get the energy efficiency out, maybe get some solar panels on and then after that we’ll look at the electrification more.

38:32
For remedial works flagged in the EICR aren’t completed within 28 days. What’s the liability on the state agents for that?

38:43
LR The regs are pretty clear that it’s the landlord who must ensure the electrical safety of a property. Maybe the only point that becomes blurred is if there’s a management agreement that states that the agent is responsible for arranging safety checks and doing the remedial works. Potentially there’s an argument that they could try and pass liability or pursue the agent for not doing it. But the way that the regs are designed, the buck stops with the landlord, they’re ultimately responsible.

What’s the best way to prove that landlords have actually acted promptly to avoid enforcement under Awaab’s law?

39:26
CW Evidence and time stamps matter? So usually if it’s not written down, it didn’t happen. And Awaab’s law is going to be just as much about showing the paper trail as it is about doing the work. So keeping digital records, using housing management systems or compliant systems so that it time stamps when a tenant reports an issue, when it’s inspected, and when the works were completed.
So that can be clearly demonstrated with clear triage processes, having a policy that enables them to log the hazard type. For example, is it damp and mould and then it allocates the time scales as to the speed at which they can react to that.

40:10
Is it an emergency needing a shorter time scale or something that is just nice to do? A little bit like an installation process, Good photo and video evidence, before and after pictures, videos of when a tenant reports a potential damp and mould issue versus after it’s been treated so that can be documented.

40:33
And other stuff like keeping copies of texts, emails or call notes, which I would assume happens in most housing associations or with most landlords. So I guess to simplify that all down, I think that if it’s not written down, it didn’t happen. So that that’s the key thing

LL I do think this is, this is where technology can play quite an interesting role in engaging tenants. If there’s behavioural or environmental related damp and mould and also disaggregating, because sometimes it might be a bit of both of structural and behavioural, which causes the damp and mould and I know my previous company, Homelink, they’ve got quite detailed insights into ongoing monitoring and engagement with tenants, but also understanding what that breakdown in terms of is it structural or is it actually environmental which is impacting that. A lot of technology can help landlords keep proactive and engaged on this.

How can we as agents and lenders turn compliance conversations into something positive for landlords rather than just another cost burden?

41:48
LL So firstly, I do think there’s an educational piece for landlords around the reason the government, the country is trying to increase the quality of private and social rented housing. It’s because of the, the enormous cost on society in terms of health costs, we’ve had Grenfell. It’s not just about Awaab, it’s also fire safety. How can we actually improve the rentability of properties? How can we increase the value of properties rental yields, all of this, more positive relationships with tenants.

42:30
It just means if there’s an issue, it can be dealt with easier rather than building up, so just being proactive with your, with your clients, I think is really important. And I think it’s an opportunity for agents, advisors, lenders to stand out and show how you’re supporting your clients as well and being proactive. What other full services can you can you provide?